KW: This is Tuesday, April 24, 1979. And this is Karen Wickre talking with Ruth Page at her home 209, East Lakeshore Drive, Chicago, Ill. If you could just tell us generally to begin with about your interest in American material, especially at that time, how that developed and how you wanted to use it kind of philosophically. . .
RP: . . .Well, I think at that time that all of us Americans were very fed up with all the classical ballets like "Swan Lake" and all the great classics. We felt that we should discover something of our own. So we were all, every'rbcdy in that period, looking in their own back yard to see what was going on.. And I thought of the idea of doing "Frankie and Johnny" because that's a. verytypical American ballad, and we did it for the WPA . I donít remember the year; I think it was probably 1938.
RP: And it caused a great scandal for sane reason. You can see when you look atit now it doesnít seem scandalous at all but it was an earthy ballad.. Therewere, oh, pimps and lesbians and all kinds of street people in it. And thatwasnít the thing to do at that time, you see. Later we sold it when WPAfinished. We sold it to the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo and it created a bigscandal there, too, in New York. Then we did it in Paris. It created a bigscandal there and now of course it's just considered an American classic.Itís sort of amusing to watch.
KW: What was considered scandalous about it? At the time the subject matter?
RP: Yes, the subject matter. It was just too realistic for them. And then of course at the end the Salvation Army sisters, they sing all these words andthey said at the end, "There ainít no good in any man." And then they pickup their beer mugs and drink beer. And the funeral when Johnny was beingburied, the pallbearers were tap dancers, and that was considered very, oh,terrible at that time, to make fun at a funeral, you know. So I think thosewere the main reasons. It was just something that they hadn't experiencedbefore.
KW: You mentioned funeral. Did you know Tamiris' work How Long Brethren in NewYork at that time?
RP: Yes, I sort of vaguely remember it.
KW: Because there was alsoóof course she was using black music and blackmaterial, so it was a big hit. And I haven't read anything about any, you know,scandal. Maybe it was because it was black people andó
RP: I don't know why- it didn't. I liked her work very much. I used to see herdancing in New York. I thought she was very interesting.
KW: She was also very active in the New York Federal Theatre Project.
RP: Oh, yes, I know she was. That's where I saw her. And I don't know whatever happened to her but anyway, I thought she was very interesting at thattime. And the whole WPA tended to have political overtones or undertones orwhatever you want to call it.
KW: In terms of the message of the production?
RP: Yes. You had to have a message in those days. You couldn't just be prettylike in the classic ballets.
KW: Did you agree with that, having a message?
RP: Yes. Well, I didnít necessarily have a message, but I did one ballet called"An American Pattern," which was the story of a housewife and her desire tobe liberated, you know. She was sweeping the floor and mopped up everything,and she was awfully bored with household duties. So she had a series ofaffairs, as I remember. I canít even remember what they were.
KW: A mystery man of some kind.
RP: Well, he was the - - yes, that was Bentley Stone. Bentley was the, oh, sort ofthe man she wasóhe revolted against everything. He was a rabble rouser; herevolted. And what were the first two? I'm trying to think what they were.And these three figures kept coming in that were the symbol of domesticity,and these three older women kept trying to get her back into the mold. Thatwas the idea of that ballet.
RP: That's right, a gigolo. She went off with a gigolo, and then she did have arich man, thatís right. A rich man and then theówhat do they call them?
KW: A domestic and a militant idealist.
RP: That's the one; there were four, I'd forgotten that. Yes, the militantidealist was Bentley Stone. And she falls for all these different types, youknow, and has a terrible time choosing. I think at the end, if I remembercorrectly, she went back to her domesticity with the three women sort ofmanaging her life, if I remember it correctly. It's a long time ago, thisWPA. And I haven't done any of these. I've done "Frankie and Johnny" a lotbut I haven't done "American Pattern."
KW: Was the "Frankie and Johnnyî that was on TV, was that pretty much a literal,you knowó
RP: Yes, it was exactly the same thing. Freddie Franklin, you see, was in theballets. He danced it all the time at the Ballet Russe de Monte Carlo, so heknows the choreography, and he's able to stage it.
RP: There was nothing changedwe had to change a few entrances for television.The tap dancers with the coffin would cone in from Stage Left instead of Stage
RP: There was nothing changed. Oh, we had to change a few entrances for television. The tap dancers with the coffin had to come in from Stage Left instead of Stage Right, little things like that. For television you have to change quite a few things.
KW: After watching it and reading the reviews of the original, you could seethat there was certainly a great deal of similarity.
KW: The things that they reacted to I could see, you know.
RP: Oh, no, itís exactly the same choreography.
KW: Iím very curious about how youóyou had classical training?
KW: And you were I guess within the ballet world most of the time, and you also seem to usemodern technique. You had some modern training also, Kreutsberg?
RP: Oh, yes. I danced with Kreutsberg for about five years.
KW: How did you mesh them? Was it a problem to use both?
KW: And you didn't feel that you had to go with one or the other?
KW: I think that's very interesting because many people ó
RP: They used to think you had to be either classical or modern, but I neverfelt that way. I think you have to take your movement from whatever source,whether itís ethnical or modern really, social dancing or ballet dancing orso-called modern dance. I think you take the movement or you make it upmostly.
KW: And some of your dances therefore are more on toe, for example, and some onthe whole foot.
RP: Yes, "American Patternî she was on toe all the time. There's notoe in "Frankie and Johnny."
RP: We did "Love Song.î That was more or less a pretty straight classicalballet. We did that on the WPA, and we did "Guns and Castanets.î Hint wasa very interesting ballet based on Carmen, and . . . was on her toes.I think that's the only one though. Carmen wasn't. I've done four versionsof Carmen since then, so I get them sort of mixed up. That was the firstone I did. It was called "Guns and Castanets."But I loved the WPA. It was the only time in Chicago that I've ever hada chance to do whatever I wanted. Harry Minturn was a marvelous director because he came to me at the very beginning and he said, "Ruth, I donít know athing about ballet. Just do whatever you want." Now that's the nicest thingyou can say to a choreographer. Nothing could be better than that.
KW: How did he get together with you in the first place? How did heó
RP: Oh, he was the director of the whole thing.
KW: And of course he knew of your work?
RP: Yes. I don't know why they asked me to be director. I have no idea, but hewas the director of the plays, of everything. He was sort o:f the supervisor.
RP: Yes, and I loved his frankness. He said, "I don't know anything about it. Dowhatever you want." That was nice.
KW: Was there a demand within the profession, let's say, for a dance project? Orwas the demand on the part of audiences? Or how did anyone conceive ofóyouknow, not many cities had a dance project.
KW: How were audiences here for dance before WPA?
RP: They were always fine. When the Ballet Russe used to come here, it was soldout every night for six weeks. Here the companies nowadays they can onlycome one or two weeks at the most -
KW: Why do you think itís changed, if there's one reason or a few reasons?
RP: Well, I think itís too expensive for most people for one thing, and I thinkthere's just less interest. I think people watch dancing on television insteadof going to the theatre. It's expensive and hard to get seats and I think mostpeople would rather just stay home and watch on television. There's quite alot on television now. We did "Frankie and Johnny" for six weeks every nighthere, and we did Carmen. That was at the Blackstone Theatre. We did thatevery night for four weeks, and you couldnít do that now. Of course the seatswere very cheap.
RP: And the Government paid for everything, which was nice. We got terriblesalaries but we were all happy. I got $150 a month to be director, and thedancers got $94. But we had a beautiful studio and we could work all day long.There were no unions to bother us.
KW: Oh, I was going to ask you about that. Were there any WPA unions at all,Workers' Alliance?
RP: Not that I know of. They didn't bother the dancers at any rate. We had abig building out in the Polish district here, a marvelous building, and wehad the third floor. The dancers were assigned to the third floor.
RP: Yes. And we'd have to walk up three flights, and we watched all the actors.They were just sitting around playing cards and having a good time, but wecould have a three-hour class if we wanted to. Then we could try this andwe could try that, and we had a modern group and a ballet group, which wasvery interesting. John Kresor was in it and Pearl Lang, and we had a lot ofvery interesting artists.
KW: Did you mix the two groups as far as if you needed a few more bodies for yourperformance?
RP: Sure. (Personal conversation with guest).
KW: Did you have any qualms about getting involved with the WPA or the Governmentor relief or anything like that?
RP: None whatsoever. I just took it, what I could get from them, and it wasgreat. For me it was just great. Some people got into political troublebecause they were too communistic or something, butóCarmen actually, Ichanged that story. Carmen, it was a Fascist aviator, that was Escamillo, anda Loyalist soldier. That was Walter Cameron. And I was torn betweenóIdidn't know what the Fascists were and I didn't know what the Communists were.I was just a girl who was in love, you know, but that was the story of thatballet. She was influenced by first a Fascist aviator and Jose was just aLoyalist soldier.
KW: It didn't seem as if, compared to Tamiris' work in New York again, Adelante,which was basically a Spanish theme about the civil war, seemed to bemuch more biased, I guess, in terms of her interest and her view of it thanyours, and therefore, much more controversial.
RP: We used the Communist salute, but Chicago wasn't like New York. In New Yorkthey were always in trouble. I don't know what was the matter with New York.They were always in trouble, and we never got in any trouble at all.
KW: Did you know that then, I mean that for instance the Dance Project in New Yorkwas very politically active and that kind of thing?
RP: Yes. It didn't bother me at all, but I loved working for the WPA. I wishwe had one now. That was Mr. Roosevelt's idea, I guess.
KW: Yes, he and apparently Mrs. Roosevelt also was very interested in it andHarry Hopkins and of course Hallie Flanagan.
RP: Oh, yes. Oh, she was marvelous.
RP: Oh, yes, she used to come out here all the time.
RP: Oh, she was a wonderful woman. She inspired you, you know. She'd say, "Goahead and do more and more and more." She was wonderful! And Orson Welleswas in it, too. You know, he's from Chicago. I knew him very well, and hewas always putting on sort of mad, controversial things.
KW: Yes. By that time he was definitely making waves in New York.
RP: Oh, yes, I should say he was. What was that first? Citizen Kane.
KW: Well, before the plays even, Macbeth.
RP: That's right, he did Macbeth.
KW: He did a black version of Macbeth.
RP: That's right. (Personal conversation)
KW: What was going on in Chicago before you came onto the Project? I mean, wasthere a theatre project tható
RP: Well, whatever opera company was here, I was always with them, whether it wascalled the Chicago Opera or the Chicago Lyric Opera. The Lyric Opera was later.I was with them for 16 years, but all the other opera companies. I was atRavinia; that's the first place I danced in Chicago.
KW: Thatís right, in the park.
RP: Yes. Thatís the very first place I did anything in Chicago, I think.
KW: There was a theatre project though, I believe, before the dances unit of theWPA got started.
RP: Yes, it probably was. I don't know anything about that.
KW: Did you go to any of the theatre productions during the time?
RP: No. At least if I did, I don't remember them. No. I was awfully busy, andI was working hard, you know.
KW: Yes. How did you find the dancers? Were these people that you already knew?
RP: Everybody was on relief. Nobody had a job. We could have whomever we wanted.That was the thing that was so marvelous.
KW: As far as costumes, equipment, technical people?
KW: And you could express your needs to say the costumesó
RP: Sure. They got Jerry Moross. I suggested Jerry Moross to write the music, andthey got him.
KW: Yes. I was wondering if you had known him previously.
RP: Oh, yes. He wrote ìThe, American Patternî for me, and he's written two or threeballets for me, three, maybe four. He wrote "American Patternî and he wrote"Frankie and Johnny," and he wrote one calledówhich I've never done. I can'tthink of the name of it. Anyway, his score is marvelous. Itís a great score.I was lucky to get such a wonderful score.
KW: Was he also hired byóI mean, was he working on WPA, too?
RP: Well, they got him. You didn't have to be working on the WPA. You couldtake anybody you wanted.
KW: That's right, you could get some outside people.
RP: They were very nice about that. If you needed a certain dancer, they'd say,"Go ahead and take her." Or if you needed a designer or whatever you needed,they'd let you have. So it was very nice.
KW: Do you remember Duncan Whiteside?
RP: That name sounds very familiar. Who was he?
KW: He was a lighting designer.
KW: I interviewed him. He said he'd worked on a few of your productions, andhe enjoyed it.
RP: He probably did. His name is very familiar.
KW: Did you intend to get a new kind of audience with your material?
RP: I never thought about the audience at all. I just was interested in gettingthe ballets on, make the ballets interesting, you know. I didn't carewhether the audience came or not because they were not dependent on itfinancially. You see, they were supported whether the audience came or not,but the audience did come. It was very inexpensive, you know.
RP: And the audience came. We had very good houses.
KW: And the critics also seemed to respond fairly well.
RP: Yes, we got some marvelous critics.
KW: You didn't seem to have to fight any kind of prejudice about it being agovernment-runó
RP: Thatís right, no prejudice at all.
KW: Thatís good to hear. How did you agree to be in the play, Long Voyage Home?
RP: I donít know. They asked me and I accepted. I said, "Oh, I think thatíll bea lot of fun," so I did and it was a lot of fun. It was a one-act play, andit was very interesting. I played the part of a prostitute.
KW: He was going by the name "Everett."
KW: Robert Milton, does that name ring a bell?
RP: Yes, he was a writer, I think or a director or something.
KW: I donít know. For that particular production it just says he staged it, butI donít know what hisó
RP: Oh, he probably did. Yes, I think thatís right. Yes.
KW: Most of these people you found were like Harry Minturn, you said, and differentpeople, professional theatre people?
RP: It was such a depression at that time that nobody had a job, you know, justnobody. So it was wonderful that the WPA came along and gave everybody a job.
KW: George Kondolf, do you remember that name?
KW: He may have been here prior to when you were involved. He was the directorbefore Harry Minturn took over. What happened to him, by the way?
RP: I have no idea. The thing just suddenly closed. I donít even know how longit lasted.
KW: Well, mid-1935 to 1939, but it did last that long in Chicago I think, too.But you were maybe doing other things.
KW: Do you remember anything about it ending? Or you knew it was closing?
RP: No, I just remember it closed, so I went on to something else.
KW: Do you remember anything about the Congressional investigations?
RP: Yes, but it didn't concern me, soó
KW: It kind of, started, I guess, while vou were actually working on it but itwas in Washington and New York.
RP: Yes, they had a lot of trouble, I know that. We didn't have any out here atall.
KW: But you didn't feelóI know some people I've talked to from the Chicago Projectsaid, "Well, if it hadn't been for New York messing things up, we could havekept on."
RP: Well, I think that's true.
RP: Yes, I really do. They took too many liberties, you know, and they were too boldand too Communistic and this thing was supported by the Government. And it wasagainst the Government if they did Communistic plays and things. And they wereveryóyou know, they got into a lot of trouble. But I was here, so it didn'tbother me too much.
KW: Do you remember Robert and Wilva Breeen for the Oxford Players.
RP: Oh yes, Robert Breen. Is that his wife?
RP: I donít remember her, but: I remember Robert Breen very well.
KW: They brought in a theatrical group that became one of the, you know, mainWPA theatre units, I guess, the Oxford Players.
RP: I remember him very well. He was very bright, as I remember.
KW: He now runs this ANTA Theatre in New York.
RP: I can't keep track of all the theatre things.
KW: Were you assembling your own company by then? Or did you have your own company?
RP: I had it. I've always had a company, more or less until now. I don't haveone now, but I have always had one. And we just put them all over into theWPA and added a few more dancers that we wanted. We had quite a big company.
KW: Yes, I'd say. Do you remember someone named Ida Galler?
KW: I've just recently met her.
KW: Well, she lives outside Albany, New York.
RP: For heaven's sake! What's she doing?
KW: She has been, I think, teaching, school-teaching children. Her husband justretired and they're planing to move to Florida. He was on the ChicagoProject as an actor. Apparently that's where they met.
RP: Oh, I don't remember. What's his name?
RP: I don't remember him, but I remember her very well. She was a child in Carmen.
KW: Yes, I've seen pictures of her, very young looking and that kind of thing.I think I have somewhere, oh, I might have given it to you. I found aletter in the Archives from you to Hallie Flanagan.
RP: Oh, really? What did I say?
KW: Outlining what your next works were going to be, you know, and you describedó
KW: Itís in this stack somewhere. You described Carmen and different things.They didnít have names at the time, I don't think.
RP: Probably not. Letís see. "Dear Miss FLannigan: I appreciate so much yourvery interesting letter, and have been waiting to write to you until ourplans for the fall were more nearly complete. Naturally, I understand andsympathize completely with your interest in American material for theFederal Theatre." You see, they wanted that.
RP: (Reads letter) "One of the ballets which I have in the back of my mind todo is based on a story laid in New Orleans to the music of Gottschalk (who,as you probably know, is an extremely interesting and neglected Americancomposer of the last century)."I am also much interested in a ballet based on the gangster nightclubera for which I have an excellent score by the American composer Aaron Copland.Did I do that? Did the WPA do this?
KW: I don't think you did it then.
RP: Aaron Copland was the first American? composer, you know, and that ballet ofmine was the first one he ever got a commission for. (Reads) "It is a satireon our system of justice. The scene is laid in a courtroom where in frontof the judge and jury the three versions of a nightclub murder are actedout as told by three different witnesses, a nightclub hostess. a honeymooncouple from the country, and a negro waiter."Another ballet which I am anxious to do with: negro chorus and negroperformers is based on a story by Lafcadio Hearn (drawn from a Martiniquelegend and written while he was a resident in Martinique before he went toJapan. The music is by William Grant Still . . ." I finally did that balletbut not with the WPA.
RP: "... the American negro composer who lives in Callifornia. All of theseballets are the type of material which I think you would agree, too, wassuited to the Federal Theatre."But what I am now most interested in doing is my dance version ofCarmen. The scene is to be laid in Loyalist Spain: and Carmen is a symbolof the futility of civil war, and her death an expression of the tragedy ofcivil conflict rather than just the personal tragedy of her death. I haveasked the Mexican painter Carlos Merida to do the sketches for the sceneryand costumes which can then.be executed by the Theatre Project, and the musicis already being recomposed from Bizet's score by Jerry Moross in Hollywood.I would be glad to give you the story in detail if you are interested butin general it is much the same as the opera story except that Escamillo willbe a Franco aviator instead of a bullfighter." He came down from the ski as I remember that so well. "The ballet will not be propaganda for either theLoyalists or the Fascists, although of course being laid in Loyalist Spainthe conflict will be clearly indicated. The musical score is so excitingand the characters and story so well known that I think this ballet will begood for a real run if we put it together successfully."Mr. McGeeî I remember him "seems very interested in Carmen and hasapproved my doing itî. I think he was before Minturn.
RP: "He is most attractive and cooperative in every way, and I feel sure we willget along together easily. He seems to be anxious to have a short tour ofmy three ballets, ìAmerican Pattern," ìLove Song,î and ìFrankie and Johnnyîat the end of October or in November, which would put the production ofCarmen over until January or February. You have not seen the 'Love Song'ballet to music by Franz Schubert. It has no social content but is very calmand lyrical and full of beautiful dancing, and thus forms an excellent contrast to the excitement and modern music of the other two ballets. I feelsure that these three ballets together form a really well balanced programand that they will be successful with the audiences." Of course, we neverwent on tour, with the WPA.
KW: You never went outside Chicago?
RP: Never. (Reads) "Mr. Albert Goldberg wrote me from Iowa where he is onvacation that he had heard from you and that he would help me get a good pianistand a good conductors for the ballet music both in Chicago and on tour. Igreatly appreciate your writing to him and was happy to have his friendlyletter. There are other details of course to be looked after, but I feel surethat everything will work out satisfactorily."It was a great. pleasure for both my husband and me to have a chanceto meet you even for only such a short time and I am filled with enthusiasmfor the whole ballet project with rhe Federal Theatre in Chicago. Mr. McGeetold me that he wants Grace and Kurt Graff to work on his new musical showbased on the motion picture industry which he is preparing, for this winter,and asked me if I would take more or less charge of the ballet project forthe time being under his direction. I told him that I would be glad to dothis, provided it was understood that the position was only temporary as Ido not wish other dancers to feel That they will not have a similar opportunitylater on."If you are going to be in Chicago again I hope you will let us know inadvance as we would like very much indeed to see you again and if either myhusband or I are in Washington or New York we will telephone and say helloto you."I want to thank you for your letter and your interestó" that sounds likea very intelligent letter.
RP: (Reads postscript) îI liked your suggestions for ballets. I will keep thinkingabout them, and if you get any more ideas do send then on. I just finishedreading 'Shifting Scenes' so I feel very well acquainted with you! We bothadore Mr. McGee. Do hope you are coming to Chicago soon." Well, that's a veryinteresting letter.
KW: And that's, I think, her response.
RP: Yes. Oh, I see. "Your letter was so lyricó" so somethingó"that. . .
KW: Something about "it could be danced."
RP: "I like the plan for the Spanish ballet and also for the one of the gangsterera and I am delighted to know that you are enthusiastic about Mr. McGeeand about the Chicago FTP." I wonder how they happened to have that letter.
KW: Oh, they've got. . .Where did you get the idea for "American Pattern"? Was there anything, youknowó
RP: It's impossible to say where you get ideas from because they just come andsit on your shoulder and say, "I want to be done," I suppose. I don't knowwhere you get the ideas. Where do you get your ideas, Andre? You get yoursa lot from photographs, but I don't know where I get my ideas from.
KW: For instance that, I mean, now looking back at that, what Iím thinking of,you know, historically new, looking at that and saying, "Now here, you'recreating a-strory about a woman who's a dissatisfied housewife."
KW: Now I think it's very interesting that you did that then. You see, that'swhat I'm curious about.
RP: That's right. That's absolutely true. So we probably had the pattern, we hadthe problem then just as we have it now. And I think it was an interestingstory for ballet actually, very interesting.
RP: I wish I could remember exactly how it ended. I remember all the episodes,you know, the different episodes, and I especially remember the role ofBentley Stone. He was the rabble rouser in the great revolt. Oh, thedomestic was an interesting one, too. We had a sort of an Oriental lookingboy, David Adiar, in the company, and he had this turban on. You know, everybody was going in for these mystical Oriental religions in those days. Butthat one was apropos.
KW: I think we may have something that may tell more about the ending, a pro-duction notebook or something.
RP: I'd love to know how it ended. I can't remember.
RP: I think she goes back to the three. Theyíre all there like three matronsthat are like very, always there and saying, "Do this" and "Do that," youknow. That was an original idea at that time. They were sort of like aGreek chorus.
KW: I was going to ask along the same line, "Saving Susies" are almost likeóImean, they have aó
RP: Well, the "Saving Susies" were different. All they did was to sing the words.They didn't dance. These three women came into her life every time shestarted to deviate from the pattern, from the "American Pattern." Theywould come in and scold her, you see, and say, "You can't deviate from thepattern." That was the idea of the ballet.
KW: I see. It's very interesting.
RP: Yes, for those days it was a very interesting idea, I guess. I didn't thinkabout it at the time, but I think as you look back on it, it's a very avant-gardeidea.
KW: That's what strikes me definitely. Let's see, you met and worked with BentleyStone before Federal Theatre. Is that true?
RP: Yes. When I first came to Chicago I met Bentley. He wasn't with me atRavinia though. I did that alone, and then we got together, I don't remember how.And then we worked together for a long time. Then he decided he'd rather justpay attention to his school and not dance, so he sort of stopped. He was amarvelous dancer, just terrific, and heís a very good teacher new, too.
RP: And he's a very good choreographer, too.
KW: I gather he's still in Chicago.
RP: Oh, yes. I saw a school that they gave just the other day and itwas very good. That's what he's interested in doing.
KW: How about other people in the company? Do you have any idea where any of them,Walter Camrynó
RP: Walter Camryn's still right here with Bentley Stone. They have a schooltogether.
KW: I see. How about any of the others? Iím just thinking of future interviewsI might be able to do.
KW: Have you kept in touch with people from then?
KW: The people in your company?
RP: Oh, it was so long ago that my company changed. I see Mary Gehr has becomea well-known painter. She was in "Frankie and Johnny," and she's become a verywell-known painter here.
RP: Gehr, G-e-h-r, Mary Gehr. Nina Rose, I don't know what happened to her. Shewas a good dancer. I really don't know what happened to her.
KW: How about Katherine Dunham?
RP: Well, she was here. She did a ballet called "L'Ag Ya."
FEP: And I gave her her first chance to. . .and this introduced her to all the West Indian material that she used later so much.
KW: I was wondering. It seemed like it would have to.
RP: Yes, she was working here with Mark Turbyfill who wanted her to be a balletdancer. Well, she started too old to be a ballet dancer and also she didníthave the figure, the right figure for it, you know. But she was marvelousin all this ethnic material sort of thing.
KW: Did she study modern technique somewhere? I don't really know very muchabout her background.
RP: I guess so. I don't know whether she did or not.
KW: She's now in East St. Louis?
KW: I noticed that John Pratt, her husband, did the costumes for "American Pattern."
KW: He was a costume designer?
RP: Oh, yes. He was a very, very good designer, very good, marvelous for her. Heknew exactly how to dress the black people. I remember they had a quartetand they were all black as the ace of spades, and instead of putting them inbright colors, he put them all in black, with big black hats and their blackfaces They looked just wonderful. (END OF INTERVIEW)